Autor Nachricht

REKO

(Administrator)

Beiträge: 384

Reg. Datum: 27.11.11

Reko 65 - Porto 1958 - 27.09.2016

Chat
OK

Qualification
OK

Start Zone
There were incidents in the Start Zone.

Yannick Verheijen runs wide at T1, hits the bales and is slowed but can regain control. The following car took avoiding action.
The Reko decide - Yannick Verheijen - Yellow Card warning for unsafe driving in the Start Zone.

Pedro Berg runs wide at T1, hits the bales and gets stuck. The track is partially blocked causing other cars to collide as they try to avoid Pedro.
The Reko decide - Pedro Berg - Red Card penalty for causing a collision in the Start Zone. No qualification in the next 65 event he participates in.

Marcel Gerris sees Pedro Berg's car stuck in the bales and moves left to avoid. Unfortunately Stefan Roess is partially alongside so the two collide. They can both continue.
The Reko decide - Marcel Gerris - Yellow Card warning for unsafe driving in the Start Zone.

Stefan Roess has more speed than Marcel at T1 because he has not seen the car partially blocking the track. Stefan moves to overtake Marcel just as Marcel takes avoiding action to miss the stuck car.
They collide but can both continue.
The Reko decide - Stefan Roess - Yellow Card warning for unsafe driving in the Start Zone.

Penalties
Roo had a current Red card warning so his race was observed. Roo left the server after noticing connection problems.
The Reko decide - Roo green status.

Reko Mail
The Reko did not receive any reko mail.

Shift times
OK

Special
None


The Reko
10.10.16, 08:33:25
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Stefan Roess

(Administrator)

Beiträge: 4512

Reg. Datum: 19.11.07

Thx REKO.

GPL Easy Installation Guide
GPL Empfohlenes Fahrer Verhalten
www.GPLworld.eu
www.GPLRACER.eu
10.10.16, 10:39:21
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Pedro

(Gold-Member)

Beiträge: 876

Reg. Datum: 08.01.10

Thanks Reko for your work and time.

I understand and am aware that there are rules needed to protect the leage from: bully, angry, frustrating, over enthusiast, hating, impatient and whatever driving.

The rules state "the involved drivers may recieve a punishment" that doesn't mean they have to get one (they may).

Reko would you please be so kind and tell me what need of your isn't met for penalising/punishing me.
I feel misjudged for getting a penalty.
I feel sad to have missed the race, the fights, the challenge, fulfillment, fun and the adrenaline rush.
I feel disapointed for not being able to score points for the championship (again).
I feel discouraged for all the training effort I have done the weeks before.
I feel unsure about what has happen to me there, I can think of many possibilities but I was driving normal and felt safe!
I am Happy that Marcel and Stefan could regain the race (apart from being held up).

I would like you to give me a "Yellow" for being so stupid getting stuck in the sticky haybale's.

I have no trouble with starting from the back without qualy, although the leage won't benefit from it.
Without any practice with real drivers the risk of getting part of a accident wil only increase.

The shame for having a red dot at the championship table makes me feel misjudged.
So please do as I request, but only if you feel happy with it.

Thanks, Pedro.

10.10.16, 20:53:30
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Bastian Grupp

(Gold-Member)

Beiträge: 565

Reg. Datum: 18.01.11

Fully agree with Pedro from what I read, I haven't watch the replay, maybe i download it tonight. It sounds a hard judgement for that incident, I had that experience often, you might remember...
11.10.16, 10:02:08
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AndersOE

(Administrator)

Beiträge: 2076

Reg. Datum: 27.12.07

geändert von: AndersOE - 11.10.16, 22:28:25

It is very simple Pedro.

We have what we can call a guideline that we, the REKO members, has been trying to follow for several years. Not to 100% but close to that.
If we have an incident in the startzone, a collision or a spin for example and no other car then the one having the collision or spin is involved, it is a yellow card. Yannick is a good example in this race.

But if the car colliding or spinning involves other cars, causing them to collide or spin , it is a red card. Thats you Pedro in this case.

Anders

11.10.16, 22:27:58
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Pedro

(Gold-Member)

Beiträge: 876

Reg. Datum: 08.01.10

Thanks Anders for your answer.

So if I understand correct:
Because you follow the guideline
your need to equally judge feels fair,
regardless or the driver is "victim of the circumstances" or "guilty",
and regardless the consequences for the other involved drivers (are they out or can they continue the race) ?


Greetings Pedro.
12.10.16, 19:37:23
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Pedro

(Gold-Member)

Beiträge: 876

Reg. Datum: 08.01.10

a reply is appreciated Anders.
17.10.16, 14:45:23
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REKO

(Administrator)

Beiträge: 384

Reg. Datum: 27.11.11

Hi Pedro.

The Reko always try to be fair. No single Reko admin makes final decisions.

In this case the Reko were split, so you almost got Yellow. It was only the fact that other cars became involved that swayed towards Red because this was a Start Zone incident.







17.10.16, 15:40:18
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Pedro

(Gold-Member)

Beiträge: 876

Reg. Datum: 08.01.10

Thanks Reko for the quick reply.

You say, regardless the drivers behavior in the start zone, he always end up with a red card if other cars became involved.

I feel that's a unfair guideline.
Please Reko I would like you to examine that guideline again for future purpose.

Greetings Pedro.
17.10.16, 20:52:57
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Pedro

(Gold-Member)

Beiträge: 876

Reg. Datum: 08.01.10

Anders,

I know what the REKO members have voted (I had, untill recently, admin status).
I know that the drivers involved had no need for giving a red card (but they may not vote).
The leage members involved don't need to be protected in this case, so what is the need of giving and defending a red card penalty?
I have sad feelings when I look at the championship-table and see the red flag.
Please be so kind and change this into a yellow, but only do it if you feel that's right.

Thanks for your patience, greetings Pedro.
18.10.16, 14:30:34
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Pedro

(Gold-Member)

Beiträge: 876

Reg. Datum: 08.01.10

I speak to you in a friendly way, and am honest about my feelings.
Getting no answers to my questions worries me and won't help solving our differences.

Greetings Pedro.
24.10.16, 21:31:21
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Stefan Roess

(Administrator)

Beiträge: 4512

Reg. Datum: 19.11.07

geändert von: Stefan Roess - 25.10.16, 13:19:12

Hello Pedro

I jump in here as admin to give you an answer to your friendly adressed questions.

I was not involved in any way to the REKO descision as I was involved in the incident.
I didn`t even have time or interest yet (I admit I might have had if I would have got a red card) to watch the replay so I can`t comment on the incident itself.

I can offer you, that I will invest my precious spare time to study the replay and post here how I see the incident.


But this decision is made and won`t be changed no matter if you have a red card with handicap or only a yellow flag.


Kindly regards
Stefan

GPL Easy Installation Guide
GPL Empfohlenes Fahrer Verhalten
www.GPLworld.eu
www.GPLRACER.eu
25.10.16, 13:14:13
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AndersOE

(Administrator)

Beiträge: 2076

Reg. Datum: 27.12.07

Hi Pedro.

I'm sorry that you haven't got an answer from me, but I haven't been into the forum much lately and have missed your recent posts.
The red card is the common penalty for a startzone incident when other cars get involved and has been that for as long as I have been an admin.
We have had bordercases were the impact on other drivers has been minor and we have discussed and decided for a yellow card.
In this case the decision was a red card for you.
For more severe incidents, when a driver for example causes a big startcrash/several retirements we have the Red Startzone Card that will bann you for the following race plus a No qualification and a 10 sec. wait in the next race you start in.

65 race at Clermont 2014 is a good example.

The REKO has never changed a posted Reko decision as far as I can remember (could have happened before my time). And according to the rules under §7, an "Objection to a penalty given by the ReKo is not possible".

Anders
25.10.16, 18:16:16
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Pedro

(Gold-Member)

Beiträge: 876

Reg. Datum: 08.01.10

Anders and Stefan, Apologies accepted freuen

Thanks for explaining again the procedure and the history of judging startcrach incidents.
I understand (from Stefan) that changing the red card into a yellow one isn't doable.
OK, let it be.

Because not all my questions were answerd I try again:

Because the RECO uses the rules and guideline's as they are, I feel misjudged and hurt.
In the past the leage has lost drivers because of misjudged feelings and violent conversations about it.
I am afraid that the leage can loose more drivers because of unfair/misjudged feelings.
The need of these rules and guideline's maybe aren't useful anymore and do more harm then they solve things.
Apart from the work and time the REKO member spend making the reports.

So my question to the RECO and all members is:
Is it possible to reconsider the rules and guideline's for future purpose to overcome negative feelings.
I vote fore a "mail to the REKO incident procedure" if a driver feels disadvantaged (including startzone).
Saves time and pain.

Greetings Pedro.
25.10.16, 20:24:33
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Bastian Grupp

(Gold-Member)

Beiträge: 565

Reg. Datum: 18.01.11

Zitat von Pedro:
Anders and Stefan, Apologies accepted freuen

Thanks for explaining again the procedure and the history of judging startcrach incidents.
I understand (from Stefan) that changing the red card into a yellow one isn't doable.
OK, let it be.

Because not all my questions were answerd I try again:

Because the RECO uses the rules and guideline's as they are, I feel misjudged and hurt.
In the past the leage has lost drivers because of misjudged feelings and violent conversations about it.
I am afraid that the leage can loose more drivers because of unfair/misjudged feelings.
The need of these rules and guideline's maybe aren't useful anymore and do more harm then they solve things.
Apart from the work and time the REKO member spend making the reports.

So my question to the RECO and all members is:
Is it possible to reconsider the rules and guideline's for future purpose to overcome negative feelings.
I vote fore a "mail to the REKO incident procedure" if a driver feels disadvantaged (including startzone).
Saves time and pain.

Greetings Pedro.


I support this request !
25.10.16, 20:29:40
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